Mfg 1917, 25" Barrel, Mod, Correct Forend and Buttstock, Small chip out of toe of butt plate, Wood is not damaged, Good Bore, Pictures show condition, Buyer pays 50.00 shipping Pa residents add 6, This Winchester Model 12 is a post 1972 gun with a "Y' prefix serial number. Guns.com pledges to make gun buying easy, to support local gun stores, and to serve our Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Most books say they did not. WE DO NOT SHIP INTERNATIONALLY $40 Shipping. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. You are correct. The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. Bore is excellent. I am still going with "Winchester sent Model 12s to Simmons for ribs, but Simmons sold them." There are currently no customer product questions on this lot. According to the Serial# 1439865, and Winchester manufacturing records, this gun w. 12ga, #366988, 30 inch barrel, 2 1/2 inch chamber, full choke, solid rib, blue finish, straight grip checkered walnut stock, checkered walnut forearm, 13 3/4 LOP with "newer" Winchester pad, 12ga, #1417110, 30 inch barrel, 3 inch chamber, full choke, blue finish, walnut stock and forearm, solid rib, original red rubber pad, 1954. Popularly named the Perfect Repeater at its introduction, it largely set the standard for pump action shotguns over its 51-year high-rate production life. Advanced . I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. Bids. during that time I handled many M-12's of varying configurations. Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 The marsh is in riot! the store. Thanks for the reference. Classic Browning Light Twelve Auto-5 Review: Busting Clays With the Old Humpback Shotgun. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. Most websites are poorly Its even harder to find a 2-barrel set 16 gauge. It also got a new action slide. The near nine-pound Model 12 duck gun is an anachronism among todays waterfowl hunting shotguns. The Model 21 double seemed the reasonable choice for Winchesters duck gun. Also, it was the only 1 3/8-ounce magnum load available. Contact us if you need an add on vent rib for your shotgun or order your Simmons ventilated rib barrel today! Bore and action are excellent. The Winchester Model 1912 (also commonly known as the Model 12, or M12) is an internal-hammer pump-action shotgun with an external tube magazine. , Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 5d 15h 14m 2. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. be complicated. I used to club trap targets with it. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. No Reserve. . The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. This little shotgun appears to have never been assembled and and has a 28 inch full choke barrel. I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. Ronald Stadt states in Winchester Shotguns and Shot-shells: All Winchester special ventilated rib magnum guns examined have sand-blasted receiver tops. Solid ribs were offered until the mid-1950s, except as noted by Stadt: The 1960 wholesale-retail catalog listed 30-inch solid rib pidgeon magnums. The balance point is the takedown joint. , Excellent Winchester Model 12 12 gauge Deluxe Skeet gun with factory issued Cutts Compensator. Johnson, at once one of the great gun designers and one of the least known, produced a steady flow of new firearm designs for Winchester. The solid rib gun shows carrying wear while the ventilated rib gun was refinished when the rib was installed. - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab. Condition: excellent bright bore, 98% blue overall thinn, Winchester Model 12. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 1d 7h 25m 17240921. Model 12 was offered in several different styles: 1. No Reserve. A study of Michael McIntoshs book Best Guns indicates that a few thousand of the specialized waterfowl doubles of all brands were sold between 1921 and 1941. Produced in 1961. L.O.P. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. There is a moderate mark as shown in the photograph. Winchester Pre War Mod 12 Trap 2 Barrel Set 12ga, Winchester Pre 64 Mod 12 DU Illinios No.1 Engraved by M Dubber, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3 INCH MAGNUM, Winchester Model 12 16 Gauge rare 2-barrel set, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, Winchester Mod 12 Vent Rib B-Carved Wood 12ga, "Winchester Model 12 Shotgun 12 Gauge (W12258), Winchester, Ducks Unlimited, Model 12, 12 Ga, Shotgun, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" 3" mag, Briley Chokes, Winchester Model 12 12 ga. Deluxe Skeet grade w/ factory Cutts, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge 24" VR bbl EARLY Serial #. Title. Jack OConnor was there and sets the scene nicely in the Complete Book of Shooting. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. Pictures are of the item listed. Gun #: 978404477 Seller: Sportsmans Legacy GA Sales: 739 $25,000.00 Tried to talk him out of doing it and sell him a build up gun but he wanted a vent rib on it as it was his dad's gun. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. The price $379 does not seem out of line for model 12's in this area; however, my question is does the Simmons rib add or detract from the value of the gun? Save my name and email to use for future comments. Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? I was in Jr college then. As you know that, Winchester Model 12 (factory original) 28-gauge pump action shotgun. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. Generally, a Simmons rib gun will bring a higher price than a plain barrel gun, and a lower price than a solid rib or Winchester vent rib gun, all other factors being equal. Nash Buckingham was one of the great duck-hunting writers of the period. THE SHOTGUN HAS A 30' PLAIN BARREL AND IS FULL CHOKE. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. Total production reached two million. Very good condition overall. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. Numbers match on barrel and receiver. I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. Free shipping for many products! The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. Stadt's book is a very good book that alot of people don't seem to know about. Full choke was the only standard boring available. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. Curious, I fired five additional patterns at 60 yards with Model 12 number 1418XXX and the Winchester load of 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot. The less pronounced pistol grip-style buttstock of the original Model 12 was discontinued in late 1934 and is not found on duck guns. Experts can attest to the vast improvements they have found shooting with the Simmons Ventilated Rib. It's what was refered to as a "Olympic Rib". Every cowboy needs a revolver. He did note, however, that the rib first appeared at about serial number 240,000. Manufactured in 1959. Just to add th the issue, here's a note that I copied from Trapshooters.com some time age. I recently acquired a 1921 gun. at the best online prices at eBay! If it's a 12 gauge, replacement factory butt stocks can be hard to come by. That way, were helping small businesses in 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. Instead of buying a gun thats Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 27 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. The shotgun featured here was made in 1976 and is in stellar condition. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. And make the 42 any grade you want and a self described winchester know it all couldn't tell the differance and may have bought one. Madis states Winchester spent a great deal of time and effort to develop better chokes. Furthermore, Winchester constantly experimented, searching for improvements in all chokes, even the old standby full choke. Winchester almost certainly would have perfected their Full-choke Model 12 duck gun to maximize patterns with #4 lead shot, the size most mentioned for long-range duck shooting in publications prior to the advent of non-toxic shot. DAC 1 1/2"&n, FRO YOUR VIEWING IS A EXCEPTIONALY NICE MODEL 12 IN 3' HEAVY DUCK. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. Charles Askins commented on the new Model 12 duck gun in the March 1936 issue of Outdoor Life: This should be the best long-range repeating shotgun now made or that has been made. No faint praise, but hardly a surprise. Some late duck guns came with special order Hydro-Coil stocks, according to Madis. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. In duck shooting the proportion of magazine guns in use is much higher, probably four men in five using the repeater. Askins added, Fact is, personally, I have always thought that I was surer on the second bird with a repeater than I was with a double gun. On gauges for duck hunting: No fault is to be found with the twelve [gauge] as a duck gun, whether in double barrel with 3 inch cases or in repeaters with 2 3/4 inch. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? I believe the solid ribs were soft (lead) soldered like the model 21's. Featherweight: same as above; lightweight alloy trigger guard. Save $500.02 SKU: 3226743 . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It was a little rough so I am doing a restoration. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. $550 USD. . Now I have never been wrong about anything in my lifeLOLjust kidding, but the way I read it on the top of page 109JMHOThanks, WC. a post would have spent 281.5 hours trying to correct off handed remarks as a expert about winchester model 12's & 42's. Model 42s with donut post ribs, no Simmons markings, proof marks in the right places, in the proper serial number range, are considered to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. M, ventilated rib, mid 1950's manufacture, completely original, only one ever produced by Winchester, ultimate rarity for the Model 12 co, 12ga, #1737096, standard gun that has been restocked and has a Simmons ventilated rib added, 12ga, 30 inch barrel, full choke, 2 3/4 inch chamber, 14 3/4 inch LOP with "Decelerator" pad, blu, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood, Winchester Model 12 28 gauge Skeet solid rib. Winchester was bankrupt and went into receivership in January 1931. Model 42s with later ribs than the donut post, with no Simmons markings or with Simmons markings, and with proof marks in the proper places are thought to have had their ribs installed at Simmons and sent back to Winchester for marketing or marketed at Simmons. The slide handle was enlarged in about 1956 to a slightly extended beaver tail shape with 14 circular grooves. In fact, Madis states Any twelve gauge Model Twelve could be re-chambered and reworked to shoot three inch shells for a small additional charge[by Winchester], yet few guns were reworked in this way. I can find no external differences in receiver dimensions, other than the ejection port, between standard and magnum versions. custom bolt act. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. Number 8 and 2 shot provided wider and more even patterns with no center thickening. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. I have several 2-pin guns. John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. Lay-a-way available for t, Excellent overall condition sporting original finishes. Winchester dutifully shipped its duck guns with a wooden plug installed to limit magazine capacity to two shells. A forum community dedicated to Trap shooting enthusiasts. BARREL 30" CHOKE FULL 90% FACTORY BLUE ORIGINAL FACTORY HEAVY DUCK RECOIL PAD WOOD VERY GOOD. An offset proof mark will boost the value compared to an aftermarket rib. . It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. The 30" vent rib barrel is very good with a bright shiny bo, This Winchester Model 12 in 12 Gauge is in good condition with moderate wear to the wood surfaces and light thinning of the bluing on the barrel. There were also many ribs installed that were Simmons' design built by Win., and Simmons rib parts purchased by Winchester and installed at Win., and ribs installed by Win. Down pitch remained 2-1/2 inches with the 30-inch barrel throughout production. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. seller description. The Model 12 duck gun came to market at the all-time low point of duck populations in the United States. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Actually, it is generally thought by researchers that no Winchester factory Model 12 ribs were made or installed by Simmons. I have owned a Pigeon grade model 12 trap Dounut vent rib, built late 1955, now that's an oddity, who would order a Pigeon Trap with a Dounut Rib (?) The Model 12 shotgun, initially the Model 1912, hit the market in August 1912. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". Westerns 3-inch 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot was introduced the same year. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. Must be shipped to an FFL, New price, Listed is a like new Winchester DU, Model-12, 12 Ga Pump Shotgun. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's The point is the model 12 evolved. It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. This is not John Waynes revolver it is a modern work of art! Model 12 duck guns could be ordered in pidgeon grade, featuring fancy wood and meticulous fitting and finish of parts. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. Along in the 1920s a few bold souls had long-chambered [3-inch], overbored, long-barreled, and heavy, long range 12-gauge Magnum double guns built. Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 1d 15h 33m 17222600. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. Both guns have 30-inch Full choke barrels inscribed FOR SUPER SPEED & SUPER-X 3 IN. The bores are bright with no pitting. The Model 12, already 23 years old, was one of many successful designs by Thomas C. Johnson. There are 3 possible models that you might have: 1) Your Model 12 has a grooved slide handle and with a 'F' stamped after the serial number and has a lightweight alloy trigger guard. You have entered an incorrect email address! Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. IC CHOKED MIROKU MADE. Loose bolts and excess head-space occur only after long service. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. Very Good example of a Model 12 26 inch poly choke with vent rib 12 ga. Other conditions: Phone 715-478-0404 within 48 hours to confirm payment, . Winchester proof steel replaced nickel steel in the manufacture of all Winchester firearms in the early 1930s. Has 30" barrel choked Full. - Straight Sighting Plane - Floating Vent rib action - Extra Strong Silver soldered posts Gun Type Over/Under w/RBSingle Barrel w/RB If not it has been shot very little and stored under the right conditions. Item . Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. The $48 price tag was right. However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. MAKE OFFER. Great communications. A Cold War era classic with smooth lines, a legendary back story, and an exotic-sounding name, Beretta's Model 71 was definitely a mouse that roared. At Guns.com, if an FFL is I found some they didn't. Checkered stocks and extension slide handles were available as options on the standard grade throughout most of the duck guns production. An incredible collector grade limited production 1953 Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN SIMMONS VENT RIB that is offered below Blue Book value. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. When winchester changed the chamber to 3" did they mark the barrels or reproof? The famous Winchester Model 1912 pump shotgun was designed by Winchester's Thomas C. Johnson. I offer the following example from What Rarer Day in Buckinghams book De Shootinest Gentman and Other Tales published in 1934. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. Dolphin, I agree with you until the part where you imply that Model 12s were sent to Simmons for ribs and then sent back to Winchester to sell. There was only one way to go after World War I: standardize shell lengths, discontinue bastard gauges and reduce the load options. Learn how your comment data is processed. Emphasis was placed on loads of #4 shot because of its historical significance in waterfowl hunting and association with the long-range objectives of the Model 12 duck gun. Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. He worked with another Winchester researcher. This was a result of the Watrous report, which recommended that many of the slow-selling options be discontinued following the war. Keith stated in 1967: The old 70% standard is now obsolete and most any full choke gun will go 75% or better. Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? Winchester designed the Model 42 to use the new shell and the combo went to market in 1932. Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. Harold Williamson, in his book Winchester, The Gun That Won the West, relates that the new management of Winchester embarked on a program that involved an extraordinary departure from the companys previous operations and the investment of borrowed capital in large amounts. Winchester struggled through a decade of inept product diversification that was terminated by the Great Depression. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. During that time they largely made the right business decisions, hired the right people, and enjoyed a fair share of luck. Item. bolt act. Epic 22 Pocket Pistol: The Beretta 71 Jaguar. Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. The locked breech bolts of both guns have little perceptible play when the rear of the bolt is pressed from the side. Patterns were fired from a benchrest, using American Target Company B21 silhouette targets measuring 35 by 45 inches. Elmer Keith instructs:For the man who wants greater range and a bigger shot load for duck or goose shooting, the Model 12 Winchester is in a class by itself [with] the long 3 load. Nevertheless, the 1 7/8-ounce load appeared in the mid-50s and now a full two ounces of shot can be had in the 12 magnum. The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. 30" Vent Rib Excellent White Front . In 1960, length of pull was increased to 13-3/4 inches on duck guns. 12 Gauge, For sale is the Winchester Model 12. I pick them up through the interlacing covert, a bunch of suspicious mallards driving for safety. Open Fullscreen. Madis states Ventilated ribs were rarely offered on [duck] guns. However, The fact is a few duck guns were provided with these ribs. Dave Riffles book and the various catalogs I have indicate that the Winchester new ventilated rib was an option from about 1954 to 1959. However, the gun for which Johnson is best remembered is his Model 12 pump-action shotgun, The Perfect Repeater.. Bluing is in overall very good condition. Most sellers have no idea what they are selling. Simmons vent rib and custom AA+ walnut furniture. I was glad to see this as I know for a fact that while many weren't done, they did indeed do some. Initially came a series of auto-loading rifles, including the rimfire Model 1903 and centerfire rifles, culminating with the Model 1910, chambered for the 401 WSL cartridge. The late style stock featured a flared pistol grip moved back a bit from the trigger. The Model 12 was the first magazine repeater chambered for 3-inch magnum shells. The Olins soon added to the attractiveness of the Model 12 duck gun by bringing out a new 1 5/8-ounce load for the 3-inch shell. It has a fiber optic front sight which is not origina, SOLD Ser no 1949422, Mfg 1962, 3-Pin Vent Rib, Full, 30" Barrel, Signed by M Dubber, Who I beleive was a colt engraver, 14 1/2" Lop to Winchester Red Vented Pad, Comes with case, Excel, Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3" MAGNUM. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. Franklin and his two sons John M. Olin and Spencer T. Olin were the managers of Olin Industries and Western Cartridge Company in 1931. the shot gun is in very good condition , with a 28 in ventilated rib barrel with full choke. Fanciers of long-range shotguns now had a 12-gauge repeater shooting a 10-gauge shot load. The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves. See pi, Winchester Model 12, 28 gauge SKEET pump action shotgun, circa 1955.
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